John Quinn is joined by Michael Barlow, Managing Partner and Founding Member of Quinn Emanuel’s Wilmington, Delaware office. They discuss the evolving state of Delaware corporate law and the legislative response to growing dissatisfaction among corporations over the recent legal treatment of conflicted transactions. Traditionally, Delaware law has deferred in general to corporate decision-making under the business judgment rule, but rigorously reviewed transactions involving conflicts of interest—particularly those involving controlling shareholders—under an “entire fairness review.” Entire fairness reviews are fact-intensive and include scrutinizing both the process and terms of the transaction, making early dismissal of claims rare. In response, Delaware courts developed a safe harbor called the “MFW” framework. The “MFW” framework involved approval by a special committee of disinterested directors and the minority shareholders. Still, even under the MFW framework, motions to dismiss were granted in fewer than 40% of cases, leading to frustration among deal planners. Despite these odds, a Quinn Emanuel team led by Michael recently won a rare complete dismissal of an entire fairness case on behalf of Fidelity National Financial, Inc. In that case, the court ruled that there were no alleged facts that could support the conclusion that the preferred stock transaction at issue was unfair. Frustration among corporate deal planners with what was perceived as activist judicial decisions creating uncertainty (e.g., as to what was a “controlling stockholder,” among other things) has recently led to Tesla, Dropbox and other corporations to express their intent to leave Delaware as their state of incorporation. “DExit,” is the term coined to describe this trend. To address these concerns, Delaware enacted Senate Bill 21, a bipartisan effort to clarify and narrow the standards for conflicted transactions. The legislation provides clearer definitions of controlling stockholders and establishes safe harbors for dismissing cases early if certain procedural protections are followed. It also reforms the state’s books-and-records statute (Section 220) by limiting the scope of pre-suit corporate document demands. The next few years will test how effectively the new legislation meets the corporate world’s demand for greater legal certainty. Finally, Michael believes that Delaware will continue to lead the nation in corporate law due to its unparalleled legal infrastructure and judicial expertise.

John Quinn is joined by Caleb Harris, Co-Founder and CEO of &AI, a startup focused on using artificial intelligence to transform patent litigation. They discuss how &AI uses AI to accomplish complex patent litigation tasks such as invalidity and infringement analysis, dramatically reducing the time and cost associated with these traditionally labor-intensive efforts. The service features four components: searches for prior art or infringing products, in-depth legal analysis (including creating claim charts), drafting litigation-ready documents like invalidity contentions or IPR petitions, and automating workflows using AI agents that operate independently. Patent litigation is particularly well-suited to AI because so much of the underlying data—such as patent filings, litigation histories, and prosecution records—is publicly available. &AI continuously updates its data sets and can provide summaries, detailed claim charts, and customized drafts in as little as 10 minutes. Unlike generative AI tools, &AI minimizes hallucinations by relying heavily on document retrieval rather than generation, and by providing verified citations in its output. The platform can also help streamline early-stage litigation decisions, such as assessing the strength of a patent portfolio or evaluating potential infringement claims in the marketplace. It also helps defense teams efficiently assess and respond to weak claims, including those from patent trolls, by producing tailored response letters and evidence. &AI uses AI agents—AI that develops multi-step plans to accomplish tasks and automatically adjusts those plans based on how the work is progressing. This allows the user to focus on the end product they want rather than the steps needed to get there. AI agents will enable faster, more scalable, and more economically viable litigation, especially patent litigation. This may lead to a boon for litigators as more lawsuits are filed and resolved quickly. Although human performance will remain crucial in areas like persuading a jury or a judge, law firms may gain a competitive edge by pairing their expertise with firm-specific AI tools trained on the firm’s proprietary data and preferred styles.

John is joined by Christian Athanasoulas, KPMG’s Global Head of International Tax and M&A Tax and U.S. Tax Practice Leader – Services. They discuss the groundbreaking shift in the U.S. legal industry arising from Arizona’s decision to allow non-lawyers to have ownership interests in law firms. This move aligns the U.S. with countries like the U.K. and Australia, where non-lawyers have been permitted to own law firms for years. KPMG has successfully operated legal practices in over 80 countries, but U.S. regulations previously prevented it from offering legal services alongside its consulting, tax, and advisory work. Arizona’s new rules allow KPMG to offer the non-legal services it typically offers clients together with related legal services performed by the new law firm. Previously, KPMG’s clients would have to retain law firms with no formal ties to KPMG for those services. Christian led the effort to establish KPMG Law US, a wholly owned Arizona law firm under the KPMG umbrella. KPMG Law US is an independent LLC with Arizona-licensed lawyers and a compliance officer to ensure adherence to legal ethics rules. Although owned by KPMG, the law firm maintains autonomy. It can assist clients with legal matters such as contract integration and regulatory compliance. KPMG Law US leverages its parent company’s technological advancements, including AI-driven contract analysis and process automation, to improve efficiency in the provision of legal services. The new law firm will not engage in litigation. For matters outside of Arizona, it will co-counsel with lawyers admitted in the appropriate jurisdiction. While Arizona is currently the only state permitting non-lawyer ownership of law firms, other states are exploring the possibility of passing similar laws. The creation of KPMG Law US could signal broader changes in the legal profession, potentially reshaping traditional law firm structures.

John Quinn is joined by Jack Neumark, Managing Partner and Co-Head of Specialty Finance of Fortress Investment Group and founder of its Legal Assets Group. They discuss the emergence of legal assets as a distinct investment class. Fortress is a leading player in litigation finance with over $6.5 billion deployed in legal assets and a current portfolio of approximately $3 billion. While most litigation funders typically invest in individual cases, Fortress invests in diversified portfolios of litigation claims and contingent fee receivables. Fortress underwrites and finances these portfolios the same way it does other specialty finance products. To underwrite a portfolio, Fortress has lawyers examine the cases in the portfolio to determine how strong and likely to settle they are. They consider factors including the defendants and how creditworthy they are, the damage theories asserted, how far the case has progressed, what motion practice has revealed, and whether related criminal charges have been filed. They also consider the law firms involved, the judge, and the venue. Fortress also conducts quantitative analyses of the historical results of similar cases based on publicly available data and proprietary data it has accumulated in the 15 years it has invested in legal assets. Legal asset portfolios are attractive to many investors because the results of lawsuits are less subject to the performance of the economy in general than many other classes of assets. Also, because the market for legal assets is still developing, sophisticated investors can often obtain better returns than in more mature markets. Jack believes that as the industry matures, especially with potential regulatory changes around law firm ownership, litigation finance will become more mainstream and integrated into broader investment strategies.

John is joined by Christopher Padilla, Senior Advisor at the Brunswick Group and former Under Secretary of Commerce for International Trade. They discuss the recent lawsuits challenging President Trump’s sweeping use of tariffs under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA). The IEEPA is a 1977 statute traditionally used to freeze assets or impose sanctions in wartime or against adversaries. Until now, IEEPA has never been used to impose tariffs, and does not mention the word “tariff.” Multiple lawsuits challenging the tariffs have been filed in various courts, including several U.S. district courts and the Court of International Trade (CIT). The CIT, a court traditionally deferential to presidential authority over trade, is moving faster than other courts. It has already denied one preliminary injunction and scheduled initial arguments concerning standing and jurisdiction. The administration has moved to consolidate the challenges filed in district courts with those in the CIT. Plaintiffs range from state governments and Native American tribes to small businesses. The cases largely challenge the President’s authority to issue the tariffs on four main grounds: (1) the IEEPA does not authorize tariffs; (2) the President must have clear congressional authorization to increase the tariffs under the Supreme Court’s “major questions” doctrine; (3) the tariffs violate the constitutional separation of powers and nondelegation doctrine; and (4) the declared “emergencies” used to justify the tariffs—such as immigration or the trade deficit—are not genuine emergencies under the IEEPA. Even if the plaintiffs in these cases prevail, the administration could still reimpose tariffs under other delegated statutory authorities, although proceeding under those authorities will involve several procedural hurdles. Ultimately, Christopher believes that real change would require congressional action, which is unlikely in the short term, and that any rollback of tariffs may depend more on economic developments such as recession, stagflation or a collapse of the bond market than on court rulings.

John is joined by Christopher Kercher, partner in Quinn Emanuel’s New York office, and Jeffrey Chivers, co-founder of litigation AI company Syllo AI. They discuss the transformative role artificial intelligence played in a recent Quinn Emanuel trial victory in Delaware Chancery Court. The case involved Desktop Metal’s attempt to force Nano Dimension to complete a $183 million merger, where Nano tried to stall the deal by slow-walking regulatory approvals by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States until the drop-dead date for the transaction had passed. Quinn Emanuel was hired to represent Desktop Metal only six weeks before trial, requiring an accelerated approach to discovery and case preparation. The team used Syllo AI, a litigation focused product that allowed them to review and organize massive volumes of documents through natural language prompts, create timelines, tag relevant material, and identify patterns much faster than traditional methods. The Syllo platform also integrates multiple AI models that cross-check each other’s outputs while following built-in mental models of legal reasoning. During the trial, Syllo customized its tools to provide rapid privilege log and document production deficiency analysis, helping to identify gaps in the opposing side’s discovery. The team also worked with Claude, a large language model developed by Anthropic to test ideas, explore potential legal theories, and brainstorm approaches to witness examinations. Syllo and Claude helped attorneys identify relevant evidence for use in expedited post-trial briefs and suggested potential lines of questioning for depositions. Attorneys directed all AI usage, with Claude serving as a cognitive tool that amplified the legal team’s capabilities while the attorneys maintained full responsibility for all work product. AI did not displace anyone on the trial team. Instead, it complemented the attorneys’ expertise, enhancing their ability to deliver strategic insights and respond effectively to case developments. It may soon become malpractice not to use AI in trial preparation.

John is joined by Ben Lee, Chief Legal Officer of Reddit. They discuss Ben’s extensive career as a senior in-house lawyer in several of the most successful tech companies in the world. After earning degrees in physics and economics, Ben worked at IBM’s research lab, where he was intrigued by the way lawyers grappled with the impacts of technology on society. Ben then went to law school and began his career as a litigator at a New York law firm but left to work at the Legal Aid Society. Financial realities eventually led him back to private practice and then to a career in-house. At AT&T and NEC, Ben worked closely with pioneering computer scientists and handled complex IP matters involving emerging technologies like machine learning and AI. When he moved to Google, Ben advised on major projects like Chrome, Android, and Google Cloud at very early stages when their success was far from assured. Ben later joined Twitter during its early, fast-paced growth phase, managing litigation, IP, employment, and regulatory issues. He led Twitter’s lawsuit against the U.S. government over transparency for national security requests. Later, at Airbnb, Ben tackled challenging regulatory landscapes worldwide, and at Plaid, he advocated for consumers’ rights to financial data. At Reddit, Ben now oversees all legal functions for a vast online platform with over 100,000 user-created and moderated communities. Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act is vital to Reddit’s success. It provides that online users and platforms are generally not liable for content created by others. Section 230 protects Reddit’s content moderation decisions, the decisions of its volunteer community moderators and its individual users. Finally, Ben advises young in-house lawyers to remember that their job is not to just point out all potential legal risks in a project, but to help their teams manage those risks so they can build great products and move companies forward.

John is joined by John Nadolenco, Managing Partner of Mayer Brown’s Los Angeles office and Kelly Kramer, partner in Mayer Brown’s Washington, D.C. office. They discuss how John and Kelly won an eleven-year legal battle over the Bahia Emerald, the largest emerald in history. The 789-pound gemstone was illegally mined in Bahia, Brazil and smuggled into the U.S. The emerald first entered the U.S. in San Jose, California where the importers falsely declared it to be a piece of concrete with no value. It later surfaced in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina, was transported several more times, and was eventually seized in Las Vegas by the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department in 2014 when one party seeking to claim the emerald reported it stolen. This led to an action in Los Angeles Superior Court to determine the rightful owner. When news accounts of the action reached Brazil, the government contacted John and Kelly to intervene. They worked with the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) which filed a federal case in the District of Columbia invoking a little-known provision from the Patriot Act, which allowed the emerald to be frozen pending forfeiture. Meanwhile, Brazilian courts convicted those who illegally mined and exported the gemstone and, after years of appeals, issued a final forfeiture order. The DOJ then moved to enforce the Brazilian ruling, ultimately securing the emerald. The emerald is now set to be repatriated and displayed in a museum in Rio de Janeiro, bringing an end to one of the most extraordinary asset recovery cases in modern history.

John is joined by Shawn Fagan, the Chief Legal Officer of Citadel LLC, and a key legal figure at Citadel Securities. Citadel is the most profitable hedge fund globally while Citadel Securities is a leading market maker, processing nearly one-third of U.S. equities and options trades. They discuss Shawn’s insights into the unique legal challenges of these rapidly growing organizations. Shawn has essentially four clients: Citadel, Citadel Securities, founder Ken Griffin, and Griffin’s family office. His responsibilities extend beyond legal oversight to include regulatory affairs and compliance and reflect the complexities of modern finance. Shawn’s journey to Citadel was unconventional. He started as a litigator at Bartlett Beck, a boutique trial firm, where he spent nearly half his time in trial. He participated in high-profile cases, including Bush v. Gore, but ultimately realized that trial work was not his passion. A chance meeting with Ken Griffin led to an in-house opportunity at Citadel, where he has been for 20 years. In that time, Citadel has grown from 1,000 employees with $12 billion in AUM to 4,900 employees with $65 billion in AUM. The focus of his role at Citadel is building the right teams to meet the demands of rapidly growing markets around the world, developing technology to ensure regulatory compliance across trillions of transactions every day, and maintaining consistent standards in an organization that is growing as rapidly as Citadel. Citadel has engaged in several high-profile legal battles, including lawsuits against the SEC and IRS, reflecting Citadel’s willingness to challenge regulations it views as unreasonable and unduly burdensome. In retaining outside counsel, Shawn looks for lawyers with a strategic vision who can articulate a clear path to winning cases.

John is joined by David Elsberg, the Founding Partner of two law firms, most recently Elsberg, Baker & Maruri. They discuss the experience of starting a law firm, including the motivations, challenges, and rewards of building a law firm from the ground up. David is a former Quinn Emanuel partner. He was inspired to start his own firms by the accounts of John and other Quinn Emanuel partners of the satisfaction they felt from building something new. He wanted the challenge of starting a firm and learning the business side of legal practice. Although running a law firm requires a different skill set from practicing law, starting a law firm is not particularly difficult compared to other businesses. Success depends primarily on assembling the right people. At first, David was intimidated by the non-legal aspects of starting a business, such as setting up payroll and office infrastructure, but found that hiring skilled professionals made the process manageable. The most critical factor for success is selecting lawyers who are not only talented, but work well together. Before starting a new firm, founders should carefully disengage from their current firm. They need to walk a tightrope in how they communicate their departure to their current firm’s management, colleagues, and clients. Boutique litigation firms now attract high quality associates because they offer young lawyers more trial experience and closer client relationships. Many clients also appreciate the hands-on approach of a smaller firm without the bureaucracy of a large organization. David’s firm prioritizes trial work, handling high-stakes disputes, particularly in finance. He has found that, while it involves risk, the rewards of independence and creativity in a start-up firm are significant.

In the second episode in this series recorded before a live audience in China, John is joined by Richard Ma, Founder of the Dahui law firm; Xiao Liu, Quinn Emanuel’s Chair of China Practice and Chief Representative of the Beijing Office; and Yixuan Zhu, partner in Quinn Emanuel’s Beijing office. They discuss building their respective firms, establishing their firms’ cultures, global expansion strategies, and challenges in cross-border legal practice. Dahui was established to better serve clients, particularly in fast-evolving new economy industries like technology, media, telecommunications, and healthcare. Dahui adopted a boutique approach—being the best at what it did and providing full-service legal support to its clients. Expanding carefully, the firm analyzes whether expanding into a new city will assist its clients and whether it can attract top tier local talent. The Chinese legal market is also trending towards firms expanding into “second-tier” Chinese cities such as Wuhan, Nanjing, and Chongqing where an increasing number of disputes arise. Quinn Emanuel’s global expansion has been largely talent-driven and opportunistic, seeking exceptional lawyers to open offices rather than following a predetermined plan. In addition, the globalization of business has led to a globalization of disputes with proceedings in multiple jurisdictions and key witnesses living around the world. Firms with talented lawyers throughout the world are simply better suited to effectively represent clients in such cases. Both firms work to maintain firm cultures that emphasizes competitiveness and client service. Quinn Emanuel has a tradition of sending firm wide “victory emails” to celebrate case wins and instill a results-driven mindset. Dahui values commitment to precision and professionalism, ensuring high standards in legal work. On the evolving Chinese legal market, Dahui bridges the gap between international clients and China’s regulatory landscape, correcting misconceptions and ensuring successful investments and dispute resolutions. As Chinese companies continue to expand globally, demand for international dispute resolution will likely rise. Legal complexities stemming from U.S.-China tensions will also likely provide opportunities for experienced litigators to navigate shifting regulatory and geopolitical landscapes.​

In the first of a series of podcasts recorded before a live audience in China, John is joined by Professor Gao Xiqing, the former Vice Chairman, President and Chief Investment Officer of the China Investment Corporation, the largest Chinese Sovereign Wealth. They discuss Prof. Gao’s extraordinary career from his early days building a railroad in rural China during the Cultural Revolution to earning his JD at Duke and becoming one of the first Chinese lawyers to pass the New York bar and work at a major Wall Street firm. Prof. Gao’s work on Wall Street led to him explaining, as a third year associate, the causes of the Black Friday stock market crash to Chinese business and government leaders. Later he was called back to China to design its first stock exchange and the Chinese regulator equivalent to the SEC. They also discuss Prof. Gao’s role in running the China Investment Corporation (CIC), one of the world’s largest sovereign wealth funds. CIC invests only in private businesses outside of China, purchases less than a 10% stake in those companies, and splits its investments roughly evenly between publicly traded companies and private equity. Finally, they discuss Prof. Gao’s perspective on Sino-American relations. He believes that, viewed in perspective, the two countries have grown much closer since the days of the Cold War and that common cultural values, such as the drive to work hard and achieve, will lead to closer relations in the future