18岁选错专业，人生就完了吗？两次高考、转行，以及重新开始

第一

非常早！！

这期真的太好了，听得津津有味！我最近也总结了自己出社会以来的工作经历，同样经历过转行和挫折，所以对两位主播所聊的特别有同感。回头来看，跟随自己的热情和好奇心，的确会付出很多代价，但这些选择让我们成长为更加勇敢、更不惧改变的人。

【转录13/29】【36:30-41:04】 So, it really opened my eyes to different cultures, and I learned to respect differences, and be much more open minded, and accepting of people who are different from me. Because we are atheist, right? And I'm also a meat eater. But they have different religions. And some of them are vegetarians. So, at first, I didn't understand about the concept of being a vegetarian, but now I understand. So, I think this is a big change for me. Wow, that sounds amazing, and I think that's also one of the reasons we wanted to do what we are doing. Yes, because it gives us the chance to talk to people from different backgrounds and different cultures and to hear how they see the world. And I guess for both of us, English has never really been the end goal. It's more like a path and a tool that opens up a much bigger world for us. Yes. 那其实刚才我们讲到那个，就是作为什么珠三角独生女，家人不想让我出省，但是刚才Wing就提到一个很好的一个观点，就是说他们不想让你出省，但为什么选择让你出国？ 因为出省太近了，所以要走远点。 其实当时也有很多原因啦，但是我也很惊讶我家人当时允许我去出国。我觉得出国这段经历的话，因为其实我们当时出国的人真的并不多。我不知道你那时候多不多，但是在我身边真不多。 我印象中，在我大学里面，大概是5%-10%的人出去深造。 对。 然后在我高中的时候，那个比例是高于10%的。就很多人直接出去读本科。 你别忘了你来自于哪里？侨乡。 好像也对哦。 对，从小就是你们就有那种出国，因为各种亲戚都在国外是吧？ 对啊。 对，所以其实因为 Wing 她本来就来自一个侨乡，所以但我的城市就不一样，所以我其实当时并没有很多人选择出国。我当时拥有的信息也非常非常少。所以我觉得我当时我家人允许我出国也是一个很勇敢的一个决定。那讲起出国这段经历的话呢，其实在我出国之前的话，我只会煮水煮面。然后有一次在我的朋友鼓励下，我决定我去尝试一下做那个红烧肉。他是一个专业厨师，你知道吗？他告诉我说最后你要收汁。但我当时对收汁这两个字没有任何概念，我就以为要烧干。然后最后把整个锅都给烧了。但是出国了之后，那没有办法，因为出去吃实在是太贵了。说实话我们当时吃中餐的话都是那种只能说庆祝的时候才能吃得起的。就春节呀，或是什么过大节的时候才说我们出去壕一顿吧。就不是开玩笑啊，就是我今年去英国的时候，同样也是那样子，一碗牛肉面就13块5英镑，就折回人民币就是100多一碗。所以我们当时真的是只能说庆祝大节的时候才能出去吃，然后平时都是自己做饭。 你还别说，就是今年去英国嘛，我想吃青菜。你知道广东人都喜欢有绿叶，就要有绿叶的才叫菜。然后我我们在那个亚洲餐厅里面，我就想点个菜心。啊。好像3根还是4根，十几磅。 真的吗？ 对啊，就三四个。我就说我在广州那边真的可以吃到吐了。你为什么不去那个超市那直接买那个，然后就生吃？ 菜心不能生吃吧？ 哦对，菜心啊，看啊不是，菜心确实会比较贵，因为它是进口的，它好像当地是没有的种。 应该是，笑死。 哎，对啊 所以所以我就是说，就是因为这段经历，所以我就变成了一个厨子，回来之后就我家人都很惊讶。哎，怎么出国之前都不会做，然后回国之后，然后好像什么东西都可以尝试做一做。 挺好的。 我还当时，很感谢当时我还是喜欢发朋友圈，或者是喜欢发那 Instagram ，我现在还记录了我当时第一顿做的饭。 惨不忍睹。 哇哦，我要看。

【转录14/29】【41:05-45:17】 我等一下给你看一下，我真的是很搞笑。那然后呢？其实讲回来我们最重要的目的还是要去读书嘛。其实大家还是会觉得去读一两年的话是不是时间太短了，就什么水硕啊，或者是什么的。但其实真的很紧张，就是一个作业接一个作业，然后做完之后就开始考试，考完试之后放假。所以他们就是那种 work life balance， 他就是集中一段时间去搞学习。然后搞完这段学习之后，然后就可以放松一下，然后又继续搞下一段。我当时选择我那个学校的话，除了是因为它其实排名还 OK，然后师资也 OK。但有一个很大原因就是它提供一个工作机会，一个实习的机会。我当时是有机会可以进入一些比较好的企业，就学校它会专门有一个老师，然后他就会帮我们去对接。我告诉他我想去哪里的话，他就会帮我去联系。这就是利用那个校友网络。只是我们国内其实我不太清楚有没有，但是他们那边就很喜欢用那个领英嘛， LinkedIn。有很多校友就在不同的公司里面，所以他们就通过校友网络就看一下能不能帮我们这种后辈。然后联系一下。那我就进入了一家公司叫Kellogg's，就家乐氏。它其实是一个非常非常大的一个麦片公司，但在国内可能是因为我们这饮食习惯问题吧。所以他也没有说占据一个很大的一个市场。那我当时进入那个公司之后，才知道原来整个公司只有3个亚洲人。我不是说中国人呐，我说亚洲人呐。然后其他基本上就来自于西班牙、墨西哥、英国，还有其他一些欧洲国家，反正就是很多元。所以我当时除了有，可以体会到当地的一个工作，那然后也认识了很多不同背景的一些朋友，我觉得这是一个很很重要的一个经历。嗯，但是我觉得其实出国学习对我影响最大的并不是说我学的有多好，或者是我的厨艺有多精湛。我觉得更多的是影响我的三观，就是我一直如果生活在这个地方的话，可能我会有自己的局限性。但是我在英国的时候遇到了很多来自不同国家、不同背景，然后不同宗教文化的一些朋友之后。就真的让我会打开眼界，接触到不同的文化。就刚才我有讲到，我就是跟印度的朋友玩的很好。其实这几年的话，我那些印度朋友来中国，他们都会来找我。就虽然我们已经毕业很久了，然后其实也很少联系，但是我们还是那个情谊还是在的。然后Wing，你也上次也帮我，跟我一起去接待一下我那个印度朋友，是不是？ 对啊，很好玩的一个朋友。 对对，所以我就当时会了解到，其实他们会有不同的宗教，然后不同宗教就会有不同的思维模式，还会有不同的一些宗教礼仪。那包括因为他们宗教的话，可能有一些人是肉食者，也有可能是一些是素食主义者。以前我们就不理解嘛，就是为什么有人只喜欢吃菜呀？或者是什么的。但是后来跟他们深入接触之后，我就慢慢去理解了为什么他们会这么去做。然后也让我整个人变得更加的开明吧。所以我觉得这是这段留学经历带给我一些东西。 So, I'm wondering after all these experience you have overseas, do you think what you study actually prepare you for the first job? Well, because for me, it's not really. Well, do you wanna hear the truth? Of course, come on. Only about truth here. Yeah, well, so actually what I studied had almost nothing to do with my first job. But my experience studying abroad made me pretty certain that I wanted to work for a multinational company. I felt like I really suited that kind of environment, and that I'd fit in quite well there. How about you?

【转录15/29】【45:18-47:24】 Well, when I graduated, of course. My family wanted me to take the “safe job”. You know, the traditional safe route, like state-owned company, stable job, that whole thing. But I did what you did. I joined a foreign software company in the architecture and construction industry. Sort of related to my degree. But once I started working, I realized, oh, I basically need to learn everything again. Yeah, I totally agree with you. Because when I entered the company, and everything started from scratch. Yeah, totally. It was partly because I join a software company, even though I'd study civil engineering. But I also realized very quickly that what you learn at university and what a company actually needs from you can be completely different. Every company has its own priorities, and its own way of doing things. At my company, having technical knowledge alone wasn't enough. You also needed good English, strong presentation skills, and the ability to explain complicated things clearly to clients. I still remember I intern there for three months. And before I could officially become a full time employee, I had to pass a presentation test entirely in English. It wasn't just a Powerpoint presentation either. I had to do a live software demo in front of the whole department. And while I was presenting, they could deliberately create problems for me to see how I handle them on the spot. So, what kind of problems? Did they interrupt you halfway? Well, Like unplugging the projector. Seriously?

【转录16/29】【47:25-50:01】 Yeah, I'm serious. I'm not joking. You know, you are presenting and everything poof, gone, and you just had to keep going. They just wanted to see how you handled pressure and unexpected situations. It's a bit like the stress tests you sometimes get in interviews now. Except at that company, they didn't just test you through questions. They did it while you were actually giving the presentation. So, your hands were busy controlling the software. Something could suddenly go wrong. And at the same time, you still had to keep talking, stay calm, and explain everything clearly. Oh, oh my god. OK. So that sounds like a real test. Yeah, but looking back, I learned so much at that company. Wow, that's great to hear. You have to, right? Yeah and here's another funny part. My starting salary was terrible. Most of my classmates were making much more than I was, because China's property market was booming at the time. A lot of people went straight into real estate or construction companies. And they were earning pretty good money. But I remember thinking I'm not sure I want to just chase whatever is hot right now. I'd rather learn something that might still be useful later. And even back then, a long long time ago, I already felt the property marketing look a little bit like a bubble. So, instead, I joined a company working on something called BIM, Building information modeling. Back then BIM was still very new in China, We would talk to major developers and contractors. And sometimes we literally had to start by explaining what BIM even was. So I had to keep learning all the time. It wasn't just because I was working for a software company. The whole thing we were doing was still relatively new, which meant I had to learn a lot, learn fast, and more importantly, figure out how to learn efficiently. Yeah, because it's a completely new concept. You have to explain a very complicated concept to someone in a simple way. I think that's the biggest challenge.

【转录17/29】【50:02-52:15】 Yeah, I really learn a lot from that company, and especially from the people I worked with. A lot of my colleagues were incredibly smart. And being around them pushed me to learn much faster than I probably would have otherwise. Anyway, my point is, the starting salary was low. But I felt the field had potential, and luckily that bet worked out pretty well for me. Within a little over a year, I got three pay rises. And my salary basically tripled. They actually had to make a special exception for me, because normally salaries didn't increase that quickly. Wow. Oh, wonderful. You are really a fast learner. But I think a big part of that came from the environment I was in. I was surrounded by people who were much more experienced and much better educated than I was. Most of them had study overseas at places like Stanford, UCLA, and US Dallas. Almost everyone had at least a master's degree, and quite a few of them had PhDs. Wow! It also proves that you are very excellent. OK. So that's why you are capable to enter that company. Thank you. But what I… what I wanna say is I'm so lucky to work with them and learn from them, so I can actually watched how they worked, and how they thought, and how they solved problems. And I'm really grateful for that experience, and I'm still good friends with quite a few of them today. Yeah, so I think sometimes somehow in our life you have to take a gamble, because you don't really know if your decision can work out. Yeah, and I think another reason I chose that job was because I was trying to be quite intentional about my career. I wanted to work in an area that had real potential for the future. We sometimes talk about finding the rising industry.就是中文里面的朝阳行业。

【转录18/29】【52:16-54:46】 Something that hasn't fully taken off yet. But you can see where it might be heading. Of course, when you join something that new, there's a trade off. You have to learn a lot, because most people don't really understand the industry yet. And you might not get paid well in the beginning, because the market hasn't fully developed. Yes. But one advantage is that a promising new field tends to attract really capable people. And that was definitely true to the team I joined. Looking back, some of the people I worked with were ridiculously talented. Quite a few of them later became entrepreneurs and one of them has already gone through several rounds of fund-raising. So, I was really lucky to be part of that team at that stage. I think probably your colleagues and you are kind of adventurous. And you like adventure. That's why at that time you chose a new industry, a new product, a new concept. So that's why just like a saying goes, fortune favors the bold. Maybe, but then I quit. Why? Well, I think that goes back to why I took the job in the first place. I wanted to find out whether I actually like this industry enough to spend the next 30 or 40 years of my career in it. And I don't just mean the software side or the BIM side, because those were genuinely promising. I mean the property and construction industry as a whole. 30 or 40 years is really long time. And after actually working in it for a few years, I still wasn't sure I wanted to spend my whole career there. So, when I eventually got an opportunity to take my career in a completely different direction, I jumped at it. I guess for me, something can be very promising industry and still not be the right industry for you. And I think that experience also changed the way I think about university. Because when you are young, it's easy to feel like the major you choose is somehow supposed to decide what you'll do for the rest of your life.

【转录19/29】【54:47-57:04】 But in reality, I don't think it works like that. I don't think university is only about the knowledge you learn there. Of course, the knowledge matters. But I think the bigger things are learning how to learn and meeting people you can learn from. Because if you think about it, university is only four years, maybe 5 for some majors, but your career could last 30 or 40 years. There's no way those 4 or 5 years can teach you everything you are going to need. So once you start working in a way, you are basically signing up for another 30 or 40 years of learning. Yeah, I really like the way you look at the university and I totally agree with you. Because I think university just provides you with a platform that you can learn something, but you have to bear in your mind that lifelong learning is the most important thing. Yeah, yeah, your education doesn't really end when you graduate. Just like my student, you know, once I, my student told me that oh, I hate studying. I was like, but do you understand that you have to study all the way all your life? It's not like when you graduate, then you stop learning, then you stop your education, right? Yeah, yeah. So, in a way, that's when it actually starts becoming your responsibility. Once we enter the workplace, we have to keep learning, adapting, and sometimes even completely reinventing yourself, especially like thanks to AI. I think if you stop learning, then you'll probably like be left behind. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, so I guess that's exactly what happened to you. You left an industry that you'd spend years preparing for, and then started building a completely different path. Yeah, so maybe the real question isn't what did you study at university, but did university teach you how to keep learning after you left?

【转录20/29】【57:05-59:27】 Yeah, I definitely agree. I remember when I was at university, I took part in a national undergraduate research and innovation program. One of my professors, who was also my research supervisor at the time, once told me something that really stayed with me. He said if you think you can learn everything you need at university, you are wrong. He told me to imagine that your whole life and career is a book. What university gives you is almost like the table of contents. It introduces you to different subjects and areas you might come across later in your work. But it can only give you a very basic understanding of each one. You don't really learn the whole book at university, you just get a sense of what's in it, where to look, and what you might need to learn more about later. So, in that sense, university gives you the tools and the direction. But after that, you still need to keep learning for yourself. Yeah, I think sometimes the university is like the abstract of the book. It tells you what you will face in the future. However, it takes time for you to experience. Yeah, exactly. That sentence has stayed with me even now, and I'm really grateful that I heard it quite early in university. I think it was only in myself a more year at the time but I kept it in mind from then on. And I think that was probably one of the reasons I didn't choose to go abroad for a master's degree straight after graduation. I wanted to actually work in the industry first and find out whether I liked it. I wanted to go a little deeper than just looking at the table of contents. If that makes any sense, I wanted to see what the work was really like, understand the industry a bit better, and then decide whether it was something I wanted to keep investing my time in. And eventually, I got my answer. I changed careers. That's also why, when people say just follow your passion, I don't completely agree. Why?

【转录21/29】【59:28-1:01:34】 I think when you are choosing a career, you do have to think about where the industry is going. Like we said earlier, it helps to choose a field with some potential. But at the same time, you also need to find something you're willing to go deep into. You don't necessarily have to love it. I think expecting to love every part of your job is probably unrealistic. But it should at least make you curious, because if you are going to spend years learning about something. Curiosity matters. Interest matters. It's much easier to keep learning when you genuinely care about what you're doing. And if you realize that you have absolutely no interest in the work, changing careers isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I'm not going to romanticize it either. Changing careers can be really, really brutal. Yeah, I really agree. So, sometimes, if we want to keep doing something, we really need to develop our interest in it. Else, it would just bore us. Or it will just frustrate us, and then we will feel lost. Yeah, once you decide to change careers, and I did. So I know how hard that process can be. In a lot of ways, you are basically starting over. You are suddenly competing with people who have just graduated. They are younger than you, and they may have exactly the academic background that the industry is looking for. And to be fair, some industries won't even really give you chance, if you don't have the right degree or qualifications. Those barriers can be overcome, but that doesn't mean it's easy. I've been through that process myself, so I know what it actually feels like. Yeah, so how did you manage to survive in the new industry?

【转录22/29】【1:01:35-1:04:00】 Remember at the beginning, when I said I once wanted to go to Beijing and study film at the Beijing Film Academy? Years later, I finally got an opportunity to move into film and media production. And when that opportunity came, I didn't really hesitate. I just went for it, because it was something I genuinely loved. But I think this is also part of the answer to your question about how I survived after changing careers. Because from the outside, it might have looked like I suddenly jumped from one industry into another. But I wasn't completely starting from zero. For years, I'd already been doing things on the side, like learning, experimenting, meeting people, working on small projects. And basically trying anything anything that could get me a little closer to that world. At the time, a lot of it probably just looked like I was messing around. But looking back, all those little things add it up. I was slowly building skills, connections and some understanding of the industry without even really realizing it. Then eventually, all of that created an opportunity. So when that opportunity came, I took it. I think that's probably how I survived the career change. I didn't build the bridge after I jumped. I actually been building parts of it for years. That said, it definitely wasn't smooth. The downside? My income went from 5 figures a month to basically zero. So how did you feel at the time? Were you still satisfy with your decision? Or did you regret? I was very confused at the beginning. I was constantly doubting myself and wondering whether I'd make the right decision. From the outside, I think it probably looked like I make a very sudden, maybe even reckless choice. And I definitely felt some pressure from my family as well. They weren't completely against it, but they weren't exactly supportive either.

【转录23/29】【1:04:01-1:06:35】 So for quite a while, I was questioning myself all the time. And because I didn't have any real income for pretty long period, I became really stressed and frustrated. You can probably imagine what that felt like. I'd left a stable job. My income had basically disappeared, and I had no idea yet whether this new path was actually going to work out. So, did I regret it? I wouldn't say I regretted it, but I definitely had moments when I thought, what am I doing? Well, you know, sometimes we share a similar path. That's why we are in the same podcast now. Yes, yes, so I can totally relate to that. You know, I think sometimes following your heart means being willing to start from zero again. And that's probably the part that not everyone is prepared for. Yeah. Like, especially when you're moving from a stable job into entrepreneurship, you're giving up a certain level of security like, basically your salary drops to zero, right? Yeah, yeah. So, for me, I've actually gone through that twice myself. Both in China and abroad. Wow! Yeah, so because at that time, I quit my job of the multinational company and then I move abroad. And I had no friends. I had no income, but I tried to start up a company starting from scratch. And also, like you, I chose a new product, like that not everyone was familiar with. Yeah. So, it took me a really really long time to build up some stuff. Of course. Yeah, so, the challenges was also so much bigger than what I experience working for a company. However, I still found it quite worthwhile. I grew incredibly quickly, because suddenly there was no one else setting the direction for me. Before that, I was used to having someone else setting my KPI even though at that time I hate it so much. Nobody likes it, everybody hates it. Yeah, and also, no one told me what I needed to achieve, because back then in the company, my director, my supervisor always told me, OK, Yao, your target is and you have to achieve it.

【转录24/29】【1:06:36-1:09:10】 But when I was on my own, I have to figure out what I want, where I'm going, and what success actually means to me. So, I can totally resonate with your experience, because we both starting from zero. Yeah, I always say that entrepreneurship, or even just freelancing, means you have to find things for yourself to do, because nobody is there to tell you what to do. Yeah, or when to get it done. Yeah. Nobody tells you when to start work, when to stop, and what your priority should be. Yeah, you have to make all those decisions yourself, and it's not just about doing the actual work either. You don't have an accountant sitting next to you. Yeah, so sometimes you have to be your own accountant. You have to do your own sales, you have to pitch the project, communicate with the client. And they actually deliver the whole thing yourself. So, in a way, being freelance or running your own business means wearing all the hats at once. You just need to do every role in the company. You can be anyone. Yeah, and you remember in the last two episodes, when we talk about the Qinghai Gansu trip. And actually you mentioned freedom comes with a price. Yeah, yeah, but I think after all the experience, right now I have a stronger sense of direction and purpose. Yeah, so, that's why I think I grew up so fast, like recently, or in this few years. I don't know. How about you? Well, I learn a lot. As usual. And I think I've mentioned this to you a few times in our private conversation. These days actually find it quite hard to get genuinely excited about a new project. I don't know whether mature is the right word here, or whether I've just been through enough that I'm not as easily excited anymore. Now, when someone tells me about a new opportunity or project that sounds really promising. My first reaction is usually very calm. I immediately start thinking, OK, what exactly do we need to do? Is it achievable? Is it realistic? Is it actually practical?

【转录25/29】【1:09:11-1:11:55】 I don't really get that feeling anymore. Oh my god, this is a new thing, this is so exciting, let's do it. It's very different from when I first started my own company. Back then, everything felt new, and I could get genuinely thrilled about an idea just because of its potential. Now, I tend to analyze everything first, and I honestly don't know whether that's better or worse. Maybe I'm more experienced. Maybe I'm more realistic, or maybe I've just become a little harder to impress. I'm still trying to figure out myself, to be honest. So did you lose your passion? Do you still want to say follow your passion? I think I still feel passionate about what I do. I don't think I've lost that, hopefully. But passion and excitement are slightly different things for me now. I can still get really excited about a very specific project. Something small. Something creative. Something I genuinely want to make happen. But I don't really get excited about the idea of being an entrepreneur anymore. I think Entrepreneur is a little overrated as a label. It sounds exciting from the outside. Yeah. But once you've actually done it, you realize that most of the time is just a lot of responsibility, uncertainty and work. So, I still care deeply about what I'm doing. I'm just not particularly excited by the title anymore. Yeah, so much stress, and then so many responsibilities. Yeah, so if any of our listeners are thinking about becoming an entrepreneur… Thinking about being a freelancer… Yeah. Just make sure you know what you are signing up for. In many ways, you are starting from scratch. And especially at the beginning. Yes, you may have to do almost everything yourself. So, don't just fall in love with the idea of being an entrepreneur. Make sure you are also prepare for the reality of actually being one. Yeah, and be cautious. Yes, exactly.

【转录26/29】【1:11:56-1:14:20】 So, after everything we've just talked about, I guess, my final question for you is, knowing everything you know now. If you could go back to be 18 again, would you still choose the same major? Well, honestly, I probably wouldn't choose this major now, because I know the industry isn't very lucrative. Sorry, I'm very realistic right now. I still don't know what your major was. Well, it's a very traditional major. It's about food and business, something like that. Oh, cool. But then again, if I went back and chose something else, who knows whether that industry would still even exist four years later. Huh, that's so true. Yeah, so things are changing quickly, especially with AI pushing everything forward. Yeah I guess the only constant is the change itself. 唯一不变的东西就是改变。 So maybe there's really no way to know what the right major is. Yeah, so how about you? Well, for me I don't really believe in regret, even though I was the one who asked you that question. Of course, there are things I wish I'd experienced. I wish I had study abroad. Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if I'd gone to Tongji, or if my mom had said yes when I wanted to apply to the Beijing Film Academy. But I think that's different from saying I made the wrong decision. Because if you put the younger version of me back into exactly the same situation, with the same knowledge, the same family, the same circumstances, and the same information I had at that time, I'd probably make the same choice again. People always say if only I know, but that's exactly the point. You didn't know. There's no if. Yeah, I had known. There's only what you knew at the time, and the decision you weren't able to make with that. Yeah, so I really like that. I think we are often too hard on our younger selves because we judge their decisions with what we know now.就开了上帝视角，然后就去批判过去的自己。

【转录27/29】【1:14:21-1:18:58】 But back then, you simply didn't know. You were just making the best decision you could with with the information you had. And I think that's a much fairer way to look at the past. Yeah, I mean, does your university major matter? Absolutely. But does it decide the rest of your life? I don't think so. Yeah, life is basically a cycle of learning something, making a decision, making mistakes, learning again, changing direction, and then repeating the whole process. I recently filmed with a senior executive from a multinational company. And he said something I really liked. There's no failure you either succeed or you grow and I think that pretty much sums it up. 就我们刚才说了这么多，其实有没有后悔呢？我自己觉得，以我当时年少无知的那种处境，我估计我回到过去，当年的那个我还是会做一样的选择。因为我只能知道我所知道的事情，对。我不会知道我认知以外的任何事情，对。所以你问我有没有说觉得后悔，我自己倒是觉得世界上没有那么多如果这样的事情，所以就像我们粤语说的 “有早知，冇乞衣（粤语）”。 就是有一些朋友怕不是粤语区的嘛，所以我们还是得告诉一下他们，就是说如果我们知道那么多东西的话，就没有乞丐了。 对啊，所以用一句我最近拍的一个跨国高管在采访中说的一句话，他说没有失败而已。 要么成功，要么成长。 对，我真的很喜欢他的这一句话，就是心态放平一点的话，然后你就会觉得好像一切都会更加的好。嗯，尤其是我们两个，就是刚才其实我们也讲了很久，我们为什么能够一起做播客，因为其实我们的人生路径还挺像的。 对啊，对，我们以前都是在一个外企，然后从外企出来之后就选择了创业。 嗯。 我们创业基本上是从0开始，然后再到现在的话，就是不能说是小有成就，但是可能就是有小有成长。 对啊，至少三餐不成问题。 对，但是事实上我们其实也在创业这条路上面的话，会走很多的弯路。毕竟以前在公司里面的话，有人给你定 KPI 有人给你告诉你你的目标是什么，所以你就是朝着这个方向去发展。但是当你选择了创业，或是成为一个自由职业者的时候，再也没有人给你定目标了。 对。 就是以前在公司里面是996嘛，然后你说，哎我自由创业之后我想睡到几点钟就几点钟。后来发现其实根本不是这样的一回事。 然后我们现在就变成了007。 对啊，就是我最近跟一个也是创业者的朋友聊天，然后我们相互叹气。我们说以前打工的时候呢，总觉得时间不自由，总想出来创业。创业之后发现，原来时间一点都不自由。不仅时间不自由，财务也不太自由。特别还有员工的时候，哇，那财务就压根一点自由都没有。 没有啊，我的财务很自由，都飞走了。 后来我们就发现说，自由的可能只剩下我们的灵魂了。 其实灵魂也不是很自由了，我说实话。就看起来很自由而已。所以我们两个刚好也是在一个创业阶段，就假如有些朋友他真的是很想有这个想法的话，可以听听我们的故事。然后自己再去做决定。 对啊，在这里让我们倚老卖老一下。我自己也跟一些朋友有说，其实打工没什么不好的。嗯，有些人适合打工，有些人适合创业。嗯，就不是所有人都适合做同样的事情。那这个也是事实嘛。那有些人打工也可以上升到一个非常高的级别，像一些职业经理人也干得非常好啊。所以我觉得打工也没什么不好。 对。 当然如果打的那份工影响到你身体健康的话，那就要重新思考了。不过，除此之外，我觉得打工真的没什么不好。

【转录28/29】【1:18:59-1:23:28】 对。 当然如果打的那份工影响到你身体健康的话，那就要重新思考了。不过，除此之外，我觉得打工真的没什么不好。 对啊，不过其实也有好的地方啊，就是创业的话，我觉得其实在创业阶段的话，我自己个人是飞速成长的。嗯，就是我觉得我以前的话，别人给我定目标，然后给我安排好所有事情，我只负责执行。嗯，那我当时其实我真的是很迷茫，然后一直觉得好像没有运用到自己擅长的东西。但创业之后的话，终于实现了我的人生的目标了，就是要用我的特长。然后很很多时候其实没有人教你怎么去做的，我觉得现在都是要我自己去找，然后让我自己去学，要怎么去做。因为别人也没有义务告诉你啊，是不是？所以，自主学习是很重要的。所以讲回来，我们大学其实有没有用？我很讨厌有一些说读书无用论的人，因为他们就会举一些极端例子，就说你看那个人没读完小学都已经可以赚大钱。 这就是幸存者偏差嘛。 对对对。 但是我觉得其实从我个人的求学经历来讲的话，这种终身学习的信念一直伴随着我，所以也让我更加的有这个方向感。然后也不会让我在创业的时候也感觉到非常的迷茫。 我非常同意Yao的观点。我觉得学习确实是终身的，就不是一个口号或者是一个标签。 事实上我们每天都可以学到新的东西，而且都在学新的东西。 So I think wherever I am now, I still have a long career ahead of me. I mean I'm getting older, but hopefully I still have many years left to work, learn and try different things. There are still so many things I don't know and I'm pretty sure I'm going to make plenty more mistakes. Hopefully none of them are too expensive. Yeah, hopefully just the minor ones, not the fatal ones. Yeah, yeah, and right now after hearing what you said, there is no failure, you either succeed or you grow. I think that makes me a bit more comfortable and more confident. We are going to make plenty of mistakes anyway. That's just life. Yes. So if you are 18, I don't think you need to have your whole life figured out. You just need to make the best decision you can with what you know at that moment, and then you keep learning, keep adjusting and keep growing. That's probably all any of us can really do. Yes, so if you're 18 or 28 or 38 or 48 whatever, if you are a bit lost, don't worry. Just follow your heart. Follow your passion and keep learning. That's the most important thing. You will either succeed, or you will grow. Yeah exactly. 好了，所以我们刚才探讨了这么多人生哲理，我们的小人生、小哲理。对，还有那个什么人生选择之类的。对，因为其实做这一期的话，最主要是因为刚好也赶上开学季嘛，对吧？有很多学生他们也刚好要进入大学了，然后他们可能也是会感觉到迷茫，或是会面临一些人生的分叉路。嗯嗯，所以不知道我们这个分享会不会对你有用。嗯，是的。希望多少有点帮助吧。其实我们就想说，你在这条路上并不孤单，我们都在经历着。对。 然后现在就到我们的翻牌时间了。然后我想翻牌的是这个，是叫 Noelle_haha 吗？然后他就说，在我们青甘环线上期，然后他就说没有听够，虽然知道两位主播很忙，还是忍不住催更。两位天马行空的主播，抽空快快更新吧。

【转录29/29】【1:23:29-1:25:57】 谢谢你的支持，也非常感谢你的理解，是真的很忙。对啊，我们也在努力中。对，但是也特别喜欢你对我们的支持，然后也不会嫌弃我们就是天马行空，然后跑题跑到不知道哪里去了。跑题跑不完。对。 然后我挑的一条评论是来自于来来_LHVD。她说，姐姐，我这次来是有好消息告诉你们的。我六级听力25个对了20个，这是我目前做的最好的一次。这都多亏了姐姐们的帮助，我每天都听一遍，要不是有姐姐们帮助，我估计不会有这么大的进步。很快就六级考试了。这次成绩无疑给我吃了一剂定心丸，我真的好感谢姐姐们。虽然我才第一次达到这个成绩，但我相信有了第一次就会有第二次。我会更加努力的。另外，我要催更。 感叹号感叹号。 哇，真的是，当时我看到这条消息的时候，你知道吗？就是可能是我的职业习惯吧，然后就感觉特别特别开心。就是每一次看到别人跟我们分享拥有的进步的话，我都觉得哇，天呐，没想到我们这个小小的举动能够给你们生活带来点帮助。对啊，我当时还还有那么一种老怀安慰的感觉。对啊，就谢谢你的鼓励，我们会努力更新的。然后还有另外一个就是，那6级成绩出来了。所以过了吗？期待你的回复。That’s all for today. Thank you for your listening.谢谢大家收听。然后大家记得一键三连，点赞、转发还有收藏。然后大家也可以在五大平台收听我们，分别是小宇宙、苹果播客、喜马拉雅、QQ 音乐以及 Spotify。也欢迎大家在各个平台下面给我们留言。如果想有更私密的交流的话，也可以发邮件给我们。我们的邮箱是 [email protected]. OK, have a nice day. Have a nice week and great semester. Yes. OK. Bye.

【转录1/29】【0:00-01:54】 Hi everyone. It's gossip English time. 尬聊英语时间又到啦。This is Wing, and I'm Yao. Let's learn English through gossip. OK, Yao. It's almost September, and it's a new semester for all the students. And I have a question for you. Do you remember how you chose your university major? Oh yeah, you reminds me of that. Yeah, it’s the new semester, especially for those who are going to the uni, right? Yeah, it's true. Well, that was a long time ago. Same here. Yeah, so after my GaoKao, I actually considered majoring in English, because English was one of my strongest subjects. Not one of, I think it's my strongest. My mom wanted me to choose that too. Oh, really? Yeah. At that time, it was quite practical, useful, and it can help us get a good job, right? Yeah, but I said no. Well, you are very smart, since right now like AI has developed so fast. For better or for worse. Yeah, so back to our topic. Yeah, yeah, so back then, I felt that just being good at English wasn't really enough. I saw English more as a tool. So since I was a science student, I decided to choose a more science related major. I was hoping that later on, I could combine my science background with my English skills to help me secure a better job. Well, things have gone a bit differently from what I expected. Yeah. But we will talk about it later. So how about you?