Can 'degrowth' save the planet?



Phil

Hello, and welcome to 6 Minute English from BBC Learning English. I'm Phil and today we have Hannah joining us again from BBC podcast, What in the World. Welcome Hannah.



Hannah

Hey Phil, it is so great to be back here. So, I'm wondering, do you do things that you think are good for the planet?



Phil

I try, but I don't think I do enough. So, maybe I cycle more than I drive, and I try to recycle things, but I should be doing a lot more.



Hannah

But some people think that to deal with climate change, we can't just rely on individuals. Phil, it's not up to you and me. We need to actually change the way our economy works. And this is an idea called degrowth, and we've been investigating it at What in the World, and we're going to learn more about it today.



Phil

But first, our quiz question. World leaders promised in 2015 to limit global temperature rises. But what was the limit they agreed to? Was it: a. 1.5C,  b. 2.5C, or c. 3.5C?



Hannah

I think I know this one, Phil. I think it's 1.5C.



Phil

OK. We'll find out the answer later in the programme. So, Hannah, you've been researching degrowth – what does that mean?



Hannah

Well Phil, traditionally governments have always wanted to grow the economy. More money, more jobs and more stuff. But degrowth is a different way of thinking about things. Some people say that to tackle the climate crisis we need to stop our economies from growing. We need to stop using and making more and focus on using fewer of the Earth's natural resources. The people who support the idea of degrowth, are often called degrowthers.



Phil

Right, OK, so degrowthers argue we should make and use less stuff.  



Hannah

Yes, mostly. It's a little bit more complex than that. And I spoke to BBC journalist Alvaro Alvarez, who told me more about the idea.



Alvaro Alvarez

So, degrowth is not saying that we need to reduce everything. It's saying that we need to decrease some elements of our production that are not beneficial. An example of those elements would be fast fashion, private jets, the beef and meat industry. So it's not about decreasing everything.



Phil

Alvaro says that degrowthers believe we should reduce some elements of production. An element of something is a part of something.



Hannah

And according to Alvaro, these elements of production are not believed to be beneficial. If something is beneficial, it is useful or good.



Phil

One example of a kind of production that degrowthers disagree with is fast fashion. Fast fashion refers to clothes that are made very cheaply and quickly, so that customers can afford to buy new outfits more often.



Hannah

Exactly. And before we go any further, many economists do not think that degrowth is a good idea. Some of them argue that it would create more poverty. And some economists believe degrowth would actually make it harder to solve the climate crisis.  



Phil

For example, Professor Sam Fankhauser, an economist at Cambridge University in the UK, spoke to you on What in the World. And he argues that degrowth could limit innovation.



Sam Fankhauser

I think degrowth underestimates the power of innovation. Degrowth underestimates the need for investment that we need in new technology and in new solutions. And degrowth underestimates the social, sort of, feasibility of what they propose.



Hannah

So, Professor Fankhauser thinks that degrowth underestimates many things, such as innovation. If you underestimate something, you don't understand the true importance or size of it.



Phil

Another factor that Professor Fankhauser says is underestimated by degrowthers is the feasibility of social change. Feasibility means the possibility that something can be achieved. It comes from the adjective feasible. For example, I could say that I think it's feasible for us to finish this podcast in six minutes. I think that we can do it!



Hannah

Well, Phil, we're going to have to get a move on. I think it's time to hear the answer to your quiz question.



Phil

I asked how much world leaders agreed to limit global temperature rises to. The answer is 1.5C, which scientists believe is needed to stop the worst impacts of climate change.



Hannah

I got it right! OK, so let's recap some of the vocabulary we've learned, starting with degrowth, which is the economic idea that we should use and make less stuff.



Phil  

An element of something means a part of something.



Hannah

Beneficial means useful or good.  



Phil

Fast fashion refers to clothes that are made cheaply and quickly, so that people can buy them more often.





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