【转录3/20】【3:43-8:37】 Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with him because AI is everywhere. Not just in the filmmaking. So why do you think it's so scary? Well, just like what we talked about at that gathering, everyone was talking about AI. You know, like how fast AI tools are evolving, like from script writing to editing. It's already, like you said, everywhere. Some people were super hyped about it. Others were a bit more on the fence. But the overall vibe, pretty clear AI is not just some fancy tool on the side anymore. It's really starting to change how we think about the whole creative process. So it's already everywhere, for the filmmaking industry. I bet it's the same for a lot of business as well. Yeah, but I'm still kind of curious. Just now you mentioned actually AI is changing how we think about the whole creative process. So did it happen to you before? Well, it definitely helps me speed things up. I can write scripts faster. I can let AI fine tune what I wrote. Sometimes AI can find better words than I do. But sometimes AI found some really strange words. But it helps, especially I like to use it as an assistant to me. So I can brainstorm with AI. Oh yeah, you mentioned that before. It is like our assistant or our partner. Sometimes we can just share our ideas and brainstorm with them. And sometimes actually they will give us some kind of very good ideas, right? Yeah, sometimes. It sometimes gives us some really good sparks. Yeah, totally. 对啊，就是很多时候，我自己在创作的时候，其实我喜欢让AI跟我一起脑爆，就有点像我们的助手一样，然后这样子可能会有激发更多的灵感，我猜就是我那个朋友的朋友，在戛纳AI电影节上面拿奖的那个人也是一样，据说他花了两年时间，去做这个电影 哇，那所以他其实还是很有前瞻性，他两年前就是在AI还没有特别火的时候，他已经利用AI来帮助他去完成这个写稿，还有拍摄。我不太清楚啊，但是起码的话，他一直跟AI合作，然后最后还拿奖了，这非常厉害 对啊，我看过那个预告片，其实那感觉还是蛮像AI出来的东西，有点就是假假的感觉 等一下，Wing，我想问一下，他那部影片的话，他是以真人的那种模式，还是说动画模式的 他偏真实偏写实的感觉，但是还是那种超写实的感觉，就有点过于，就是还是有点，可能那个高光，或者什么反光位，是有点假假的感觉 哦 但整体已经挺不错的了 对啊，所以他那些角色，那些人物的话，他都是虚拟的，对吧？ 他不是真人的，不是真人的 哇 对啊 那以后演员都会失业了，是吗？

【转录4/20】【8:39-12:27】 很难说，现在估计就是新的模式，就是我们在那个电影人聚会的上面，是我们聊了很多嘛，那有些人就会提出来说，其实我们要改变一种模式去想，就以前可能就我们要做很多casting，就要做很多试镜，那可能现在呢，因为AI可以直接用演员的脸，然后生成一个视频嘛，那将来的趋势可能也会这样子，那这个时候就是看大家怎么去包装自己，包括你的社媒啊，看哪个可以引来更多流量，或者引来更多人去关注，那可能就会挑你，就看这个演员本身，在社媒上面够不够charming，够不够吸引人，就换了一种方式，跟以前casting这种就不太一样 那这样子，岂不是变成了以貌取人？ 也不一定哦，就是，你很难说你在社媒上，你的活跃度，或者你有没有观众缘，其实是，不是完全是因为外貌的，那观众缘这个东西，其实是一门玄学 那也是，面由心生，那些很有观众缘的演员的话，说不定他们其实内在也是有的，那也不一定 对啊，很难说的，但是AI一定会改变我们的思维模式，这是肯定的，我觉得 我也觉得是，其实我个人的话，我有时候很多时候，把那个AI，除了在我的工作上面会跟它有交流或者是沟通，或者是在这个方面应用的话，有时候我也会把他当作是我的情感导师 免费的心理辅导师 对，我就说我最近在经历什么事情，然后你首先你帮我剖析一下为什么我会有这样子的心情，为什么我会有这样子的心态，然后我应该怎么去做，有时候他给我的还是挺好的一个建议 不就是跟那些祷告士是一样的吗，就是神父在那里，只是听你说的东西，然后其实不用给你什么反馈，你只要有人听就好了 那不一定，我就是很喜欢，就是挖它的根本原因，就是说你帮我分析一下，为什么我会有这样子的心态，为什么我会有这样子的感受，然后首先他帮我分析完这个深层原因之后，然后我就说那我该怎么去做 希望他可以帮到你，不要让你误入歧途 Well, sometimes it helps. Good. So, Wing, talking about the AI filmmaking, are you diving into this one now? Yeah, but I'm not totally sold yet. To be honest, writing a solid prompt, that takes me a bunch of tries. It's like playing a weird game of trial and error. Just nudging words around and hoping the AI finally gets what I'm after. For example, I used Gemini's VEO before. I gave it a shot. It's super slick, don't get me wrong. It's super cool. But to actually get something close to what I imagined, I had to keep tweaking the prompt like I was tuning a guitar that just wouldn't stay in tune. Just a little bit, just a little bit. I want to get it. It's very close, but not there yet. Yeah, when I keep tuning that, every time you generate anything, it costs tokens, which means real money. Oh, no. So, yeah, it's not cheap. That's how it earns money, huh? Yep, so if you want to get something serious, potentially good, it just means you need to get ready to burn through your wallet. Wow, sounds like a headache. Yeah, so, you know, if you are trying to generate something on the level of that Cannes award-winning film, AI film, that's not gonna be cheap.

【转录5/20】【12:29-15:38】 You probably burn through a ton of tokens just to get the right look, right feel, or right vibe. It's not going to be cheap. It's not like you just type a prompt and win an award. It's more like type, tweak, pay, repeat. And then you probably can get something close to what's in your head. Okay. You know, just now, when we talked about the AI filmmaking, and I was thinking about one thing. Right now, if they don't need to hire anyone in the films, they don't need to, you know, rent a place to shoot or whatever. I think it saves a lot of money. So, because we have a saying in China, right, like the actors cost two million something per day.二百零八万. So that's why I was like, oh, wow, so AI filmmaking probably saved a lot of money and then probably it also had a really good result. But what you said just now, just like, okay, so it's still very costly. 但是你想想，那怎么都比那种绿幕抠图的演员出来的效果要好，像我们之前聊过的一部片，全程靠抠图，那这时候这个AI多少都会比那个要好 对 那些演员也不便宜 那当然 所以其实就据我所知，就目前的情况来说，如果你要生成像刚才说的戛纳获奖的那个AI电影，其实它是不便宜的。因为我自己用过Gemini 那个VEO,其实它每出一个片段, 你要不断地试,就是看你怎么写那个提示词,其实提示词不太好写,写得好的人其实不太多。 对,我就很明显,就算我不是生成那个视频, 但是有时候我去跟那AI 去对话的时候,我想要他生成 一些东西的话,都会有一点偏差, 所以真的不太好写。 真的是。But anyway, I sort of have come to terms with it, you know, this whole AI thing. Instead of being afraid of it, and I know it's not just a fad, it's the future. So a few months back, I had this epiphany.就是几个月之前, 我突然有一个顿悟。 What's that? Instead of trying to fight the AI wave, you know, like paddling against the surf, I might as well learn to ride it.就是与其跟那个浪潮对抗, 不如我就乘风而去。 Well done. That's very good. Because I think when people come across the AI wave, they were like, okay, I just go with the flow, but you try to learn how to ride it. Well done, huh? Yeah. So what have you done? Remember I mentioned I started a new company? Yeah. It's actually AI-related. Wow, cool. So now, instead of stressing about being replaced by machines or AI, I'm figuring out how to build with them. It's pretty wild, but I'm kind of excited too.

【转录6/20】【15:41-19:08】 Well, what is it about? Wing, I know, is the DeepSeek founder, Liang Wenfeng, your relative? Both of you also have the same surname, Liang. Probably he gave me the epiphany. Like, you know, somehow in the back in the history, we're from the same ancestor. Yeah, same root. So what is it about? So it's about AI agents. You know what is AI agent? I don't know. Why AI needs agents? It's actually called AI智能体, 就可能中文你有听过。 So can you explain more? Let me put it this way. All those big AI models like DeepSeek by Liang Wenfeng, my remote, very, very remote relative. You know, those big models, AI models are like the brain, like our central nervous system.就是有点像我们中枢神经系统。But actually do something like, say, pick up a cup, you need your brain to send signals to your hand through the peripheral nervous system.就是你，你要拿一个杯子的话，其实你就需要你的中枢神经，就是你的大脑传输一个信号给到你的手上的周边神经系统，然后你才能拿起那个杯。 Yes. So AI agent is like the nervous system of our hand. They are the part that actually does things based on what the AI model decides. Just like your hands for grabbing, feet for walking. AI agents can be designed for different purpose. You might have one agent that handles research, crawling through documents and summarizing info. Another might handle task management like scheduling, coordinating stuff across tools, etc. Others are built for customer service like writing emails or even automating creative workflows like code writing. 所以我可以这么理解吗，那个AI智能体的话，就是它会有不同的智能体，不同的功能。就好像我们身体的部位那样子的话，手是用来抓取东西的，脚是用来走路的，然后所以AI它不同智能体的话，也是会有，根据不同的需求，然后来进行不同的设计，那是不是可以理解为，像我们现在市面上面有很多很多的那些AI工具，比如说有些是豆包，豆包专门用来对话，然后Deepseek，专门用来做一些信息的搜索之类的，是这样子吗? Deepseek它本身是一个大模型，豆包应该也是一个大模型，我记得，它其实更多像是基于豆包的一些。比如说，我要小红书生图，那我就基于豆包的生图功能，然后做一些设定，比如说，小红书要求的是3:4的比例，然后我其实小红书的格式，包括那个图片，是有一定的规律的，它就将这种规律写进去这一个Agent智能体里面，让你每生成一张图都符合这个要求 哦，就更加的专业化 对 哦 是的 哇，那所以的话就是，其实一个AI可以做很多的事情，那好像我们人一样，一个人可以做很多事情，但是我们需要分工合作，然后我们需要更加的精细化的一个分工 嗯，对的呢 That's cool. So what's your agent like?

【转录7/20】【19:10-21:59】 Well, what we are building is an AI agent that helps with sales, especially in private spaces like WeChat. You know how most CRM tools don't really fit into those chat-based platforms. CRM is client resources management. 其实就是你的客户关系管理的一个系统，那其实目前大部分的CRM系统，其实不太不会是这种聊天为基础的一种平台。So that's where our agent comes in. It helps with chatting to customers, following up, and just keeping the conversation going in a natural, human-ish way. Wait, Wing. I have a question. Is your AI like the robots in the e-commerce? Like the 客服机器人。I just give them some keywords and they give me the answer. But usually the answer is not related to my question. Stuff like that. That's a great question. That's what we found, and that's how we started this AI agent. The cool part of it is every conversation our AI agent generated is kind of tailor-made. So even if the original command or situation is the same, just like there's some keywords that you send, the way it responds depends on the context. Like what the person said before, how they've interacted in the past. It's not really Q&A replies. Ah, I see. So I think your AI is more advanced than those kinds of robots because it's more customized. Yeah, as a customer, when I use e-commerce, I hate those. Like for example, when is my product delivered, they always send me the exact same context. And I hate that. Yeah, just the general answer. Three to seven days. But you don't know when exactly. Yeah, and then no matter how I ask, they just give me the exact same answers over and over and over. And I hate that. So every time when I talk over e-commerce, I would just keep typing I need a real person, like 人工服务,人工服务,人工服务. Same here. Now I learned. Whenever I open the chat box, okay, I just type 人工服务. Me too. It's really annoying, you know. Yeah. So that's why we build this AI agent. We don't want the sales or after sales service work like a robot. We want some warmth in our conversation. Just a little bit tailor-made conversation.

【转录8/20】【22:00-24:56】 Know the context. At least, please know the context. Yeah. 需要点人味 对，你至少联系一下上下文，包括我们找那些客服，人工服务也是。人工服务回答我之后，我第一句话就“请看聊天历史记录” Yeah. 我真的是觉得现在人工服务，他也是非常的AI化,你知道吗? 我就给他发一个问题,譬如说是售后的问题,然后他就会说“你稍等一下,我先看一下。好的,我现在先分析一下。现在帮您转接一下售后团队。”然后售后团队来了就说“你好,我先看一下上面的问题是什么。”我真的觉得这个沟通非常的低效,然后就完全就很浪费我时间。可能再等了五分钟的时间的话, 然后他都没有回答我问题。That's really troublesome. Yeah, I know. That's why we have this AI agent. Yeah. So tell me more about it. Well, besides the tailor-made conversation, we can do mass messaging to a lot of people, but every message is different, based on the context. For example, if you want to send out, like you, teaching English, there are some keywords you want your students, like 10, 20 students to know today's keyword, what is AI, what is artificial intelligence is, and then you send like, I want the students to know this word and expand it a little bit. When you do mass messaging, you will send exactly the same message to everyone, right? Yes, yes. But through these agents, every message is different. Some kids might already know what is AI, so you probably wouldn't send the message, or just send a message like, this is a word reminding, help you to re- remember the word, or some students don't know this word before, you never mention it, then you would expand the word and give some examples this student might be interested in. So every message can be different. Wow, that sounds very effective. Yeah, we are pretty proud of it. You should, you deserve it. 所以Wing，你现在那个AI的话，其实真的是非常的智能，而且的话，也可以根据客户的需求，然后来制定。 我就想，刚才你在讲的时候，我就想起，什么海王海后的话，经常就会说什么，诶宝宝你吃了吗 诶，现在不是了，可以叫名字了 不会再搞错了 Yeah. Okay, just kidding. And one neat feature of it, we train the AI agents to say I don't know, which is really important. Because if usually when you ask the AI model to give you an answer, it's very likely it wouldn't say I don't know. It won't. Right? So we train the AI agent to say I don't know, especially when this AI agent is supposed to be a sales rep for makeup products.

【转录9/20】【24:59-28:27】 This sales rep shouldn't know how to write code. But for most AI models, they would just help you write code, no matter what your previous question is, or what the previous contact is, it doesn't matter. Whatever you ask, they just do it for you. But Wing, I'm kind of curious why you try to teach AI to say I don't know. Because as we all know, AI is powerful, omnipotent. They know everything. So that's why we try to ask AI everything. So why you try to teach them to say I don't know? It's a chat-based agent. We want the conversation to have some warmth, like human being. So actually help you, if this AI agent is representative of you, you wouldn't want it to know everything, right? This is not real. You want it to represent you. It just helps you to do more conversation. It's not going to replace you. It's just more like you, another you on internet world. So we want this agent to know when to say I don't know, just like us. We don't know everything. We will say I don't know. That makes us feel more real. That's a very interesting insight. 所以AI是很全能的，但有时候因为它太全能，我自己倒觉得有点不太真实，当然我们现在目前的使用场景来说也无所谓，但是如果我们在一个对话里面，其实当你对方是一个known-it-all Walking dictionary Usually this kind of people are not really likeable. 对呀，就是太全能的话，或者什么都知道的话，可能还会跟人产生了距离感 对呀，一般人都不可能知道知道所有事情，专家也只会知道他专家的那个部分，他不可能所有东西都知道 对 你不可能让一个销售去写代码，你也不可能是让一个写代码的人去教你化妆 对 当然有些全能的人，是另外说了，你说一般大众 对，确实是，所以你说，你要教AI说我不知道的话，那确实是会更加有人味，就起码的话，也会更加让我们没有那么大的一个距离感，不然的话，就会让我觉得好像如果对方是什么都知道的话，我就很害怕跟他接触，因为我就很害怕暴露我自己有多蠢 所以我们自己的定位，其实就是想把这个产品变成是不同角色的一个助理或者助手，减轻大家去做繁琐的工作，让我们去做一些更有意义，更需要我们去动脑去做的事情，那些繁琐的事情那就交给AI去做，那我们也可以解放我们双手，解放我们的时间 解放我们大脑，可以去创造，更加有意义的事情 是啊。That's the whole point. Hopefully. That's our hope. So to do that, you know, one of the biggest things for us is to kill the hallucination in AI. That's super important. Hallucination? You mean 幻觉? 嗯，是的，就是会乱说东西、乱编东西，就是AI有时候会乱编东西 Yeah, I heard about that. Tell me more about it. How did you hear about that?

【转录10/20】【28:29-31:28】 Sometimes I ask them to give me the links so that I don't need to search every page or every website, every video by myself. I hope it can save me time, right? Then it sent me the links. I was very happy. Oh, wow! AI is very intelligent. 404. Probably not. 就是我当时去叫他，我说我需要这些知识，我需要这些信息，然后你可不可以把那个链接发我，我想说，那我就可以省很多时间，我就直接看那些链接，我就可以知道，他在讲什么东西，对吧？然后他就给我发了链接，但事实上，我每一次打开的话，他就说页面不存在，或者是页面已过期，反正就是404 Yep，那就是幻觉，那叫做AI幻觉，AI hallucination Okay, just try to fool me. I know. Well, imagine if that happens in a customer service. If you want to return something, it says you can return it, you know, just give you a random date like 30 days. In fact, you can only return it within 7 days. That would cause huge problems for the clients and for your business. You cannot do that, right? Yes. That could be really problematic. Like before, another famous example is AI image generator makes weird stuff like hands with extra fingers. It's pretty creepy. Oh, it happens. I remember last year when AI was so popular like everybody talked about AI and sometimes when we're trying to identify if the image is generated by AI, we just count the fingers. AI couldn't create a person with 5 fingers, with 10 fingers. Yep, it's really creepy. It is. Because AI doesn't really understand what a hand is, it can only fake it. Basically, I can use a Chinese term to describe how AI learn about what a hand is. It's 填鸭式学习, 其实你硬塞给他很多资料，然后他说，哦，这就是手，但是很多时候可能就是，你知道我们准备高考，经历过这个填鸭式学习，不代表我们所学的所有东西可以消化得了 It's just root learning. I just teach you the tricks, and then you learn it. And after the exam, then you will leave everything behind. Probably just don't remember it at all or something like that. So Wing, what causes these hallucinations? Based on what I learned, there are four main things. So here comes a lot of jargons. A lot of terms and jargons. So number one is training data limitations. AI models are trained on vast data sets.

【转录11/20】【31:29-35:19】 But if the data is biased, incomplete, or inaccurate, the AI can produce flawed outputs. It's like the internet has everything on it, but it doesn't mean everything is correct. A classic example of this is how AI used to be really good at telling the difference between a husky and a wolf. 就是之前有一个比较经典的案例，关于这一个数据局限性，就是AI很擅长去区分哈士奇还有狼，其实这些人都分不清楚这两种动物 对啊，然后，所以AI是怎么做? Well, it turns out most of the pictures of wolves are coming with snow. AI was linking the white snow in the image with the idea of wolf. So later it was discovered that AI would mistook something else with snow for wolf. 所以AI的话，它会对狼跟哈士奇进行一个辨别的话，就是根据背景有没有雪，因为它AI很多时候会把雪跟狼联系在一起，就有雪出现的地方的话，就是狼。对，因为训练数据，有时候你很难说可能这堆数据里面，大部分我要训练AI去区分哈士奇跟狼的时候，刚好狼的照片里面都有雪，然后AI就误以为有雪的都叫狼，然后它就把这个做了一个关联。那我们人是不知道的嘛，那一开始我拿这堆数据去训练它，我没有察觉到狼的图片里面都是雪，对啊，那对于我来说，可能我根本就不知道，谁知道之后在试一些其他的数据去验证它的时候，就突然发现怎么有雪的地方都叫狼，所以就出现这种问题 Makes sense. Well, actually, it reminds me of something. Do you know there is a very famous website called Reddit? So it's like BBS, right? So many people leave the comments or post something on that platform. And that's why the AI company wants to get the data from that website. However, actually, in that platform, many people post, I cannot say many people, like some people post something prejudiced, racist, or stuff like that. So sometimes the result comes out as inaccurate if the AI tries to learn from that. Yeah, the internet is not always right. Yeah. 所以我刚才举了一个例子，就我之前有了解到的国外有一个网站就叫Reddit,然后它是非常有名嘛,它就好像我们之前的那些BBS那样子,很多人在上面发帖呀,很多人在上面评论。就其实很多时候的话,它都可以帮助我们解决很多问题。但事实上,它有一些人在上面,因为我们没有办法控制每个人他的发言,所以有些人他可能发言的会比较有偏见, 可能会带有种族歧视之类的。所以如果AI去学习这一部分不太好的数据的话,那最后它可能出来的结果就是会有偏差,然后就不太正确。 对啊,我最近听了一个博客,他就说到说那个Claude又出新模型嘛,就是一个大模型公司。然后不同版本呢,它的对于,我忘了是关于哪个问题,的针对性是不一样的。有一个模型是特别特别注重动物的权益。估计就是它训练数据的问题,就它用了不同的数据去进行训练。结果出来的结果就有点不一样。 Oh, very interesting huh? Yea, so the second question is ambiguity and context. You know, Language is messy and full of double meanings. It doesn’t matter if it’s Chinese or English.

【转录12/20】【35:22-39:09】 It caused misunderstanding. If AI doesn't fully get the context, it might totally mess up a response. Like that classic joke in advertisement. A client would say, 'I want colorful black.' Humans can’t even figure that out, how AI knows what to do? Yeah. I wonder how.就是本来它语言,就不管是哪一门语言的话,它都会有多重含义。就好像我们那个什么英语听力还有什么中文听力,就网上经常讲的那些。 段子。 对,那些段子。然后它都是一个单词或者一个短语的话,它都有多重的含义嘛。所以如果AI它不能完全理解上下文的话,它可能就会完全就会搞错。 对啊,就是广告圈之前最出名的那个笑话,就是客户说我要五彩斑斓的黑。所以这个我就觉得是个很经典的例子。你这样说这种,就不管是哪一种语言,哪一种场景,其实都不太makesense。 对啊,那其实是什么意思我都还没有搞懂。 就是可能他觉得黑不是他想要的东西,就是一种感觉。就很多时候我们都说一种感觉。当我们在给AI输入一些提示词的时候,如果是说一种感觉,AI可能很有可能就无法理解了。就过于感性的东西。 对,因为有时候就好像说,我叫AI帮我生成一段话的时候呢,它会非常的,就它逻辑性非常强嘛,但是呢它又非常的冷冰冰,然后又说请你带点人味。但是呢我又觉得它可能生成出来的效果,反正永远都不是我想要的,就是它就没有什么人味。它就没有办法理解我这个人味是什么意思。 就这个时候你要说得更具体一些,单纯说人味是不够的。 对对。 也就是说我喜欢用哪些词,或者是我请参考某一段文字的风格之类的,那它会更容易去理解。 对啊。好,学习了,下次就这样去做。 Okay, so what's number three? Well, the number three is lack of grounding. Sometimes AI doesn't have access to real-time or accurate info, so it just makes stuff up to fill the gaps, like when an essay footnote cites random sources that didn't even exist. Yeah, just exactly what I mentioned just now, I asked them for some links, they gave me the links already expired, or probably like never existed. Yep. 所以就有时候AI的话,它没有实时或是准确的信息。因为我记得好像有一些模型的话,它的数据来源已经是可能是一年前或是两年前,对吧?然后所以它有时候它就会,我们问它一些实时的问题的时候呢,它就会凭空编造一些东西,然后来填补这个空白,就好像it knows everything. Yep. 就好像我刚才有举过一个例子,就说我去叫它帮我去找一些网页,它给我那些网页全都已经不存在了,我都不知道为什么不存在它还能找得到。That's ridiculous. Yep, that's called making stuff up. 一本正经在胡说八道。 Yeah. They did a very good job, huh? Yeah. Although a lot of models right now can have internet search with it, but still I try it, sometimes it still make up something. Yeah. Sometimes. Okay, so what's next? The last one is overfitting, which means if AI gets trained on specific data too much, it starts to stick to patterns that might not always apply. Let's say it's trained to recognize faces with two eyes, one nose, and one mouth.

【转录13/20】【39:11-42:45】 If you swap the eyes and the nose in the picture, it might still think it's a face, just because it's seeing a right number of features in the right shapes, which are two eyes, one nose, and one mouth. If you flip the pictures upside down, probably suddenly the AI is totally confused, even though it's still the same face. 就是它过度拟合了，我们在训练AI的数据过于固定某种形式，或者某种模式的时候，它就很容易就是调试到过于适合这种模式，我刚才举个例子，就是我们要在训练AI什么叫做人脸，那人脸里面有什么，有两只眼睛，一个鼻子，一张嘴巴，那它就会认为，只要有两只眼睛，一个鼻子，一个嘴巴，那就是人脸。所以有时候你将那个眼睛，鼻子，嘴巴，换一下位置，人看上去会觉得很奇怪，但是AI还是觉得那是一个人脸。但是如果你将一个图片倒转过来的话，它就可能觉得那不是一张人脸，所以它必须要准确位置，然后它才能识别出来，对当我们训练AI的过程当中过于专注在一种模式或者一种内容的时候，它可能就会通过这种强关联，它认为的关联性，然后进行辨别。 Oh, okay, that's interesting. Yeah, and this problem is so common that it even has a name. It's called Picasso problem. 毕加索的问题？ 对呀，毕加索最出名的是它的抽象画吧，抽象画不就是将人的五官乱排位置，乱摆布吗？所以就跟我刚才说的我们看一张画，我们大概也知道它是一张人脸，毕竟毕加索的画，为什么叫抽象画，甚至叫野兽派，就是因为他画的东西实在太抽象了，他对于AI来说，那就有个五官,那就是人脸嘛。所以它有时候即便看上去跟毕加索的画一样, 就是五官乱摆位置也无所谓。 Oh,原来是这样。 At the end of the day, AI is just about zeros and ones. Its intelligence is really just about faking it until it makes it. Fake it till you make it, huh? Yeah, that makes sense. But recently, I've noticed it's getting better. I tested the latest models today, and it seems like they've already actually solved these classification problems. So how did you test the model? I just sent the same photos, like upside down, swap the places of eyes and mouth and just see if you can recognize it. Actually, a lot of models can recognize it. It's a face and even notify me the spots of mouth and eyes are swapped. Oh, that's very smart. Yeah, so it's pretty cool. And I guess better every day. Yeah, AI is developing rapidly. Okay, so how can we prevent these hallucinations? Well, there are five tips from what I've been learning. Hopefully, it can help you. So the first one is improving training data. The better, the more complete the training data is, the less biased and inaccurate the AI will be. But let's be real. That's nothing we can do.

【转录14/20】【42:46-46:19】 Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm thinking. How can I do that? No, you can't. That's how the big names, AI model companies like OpenAI, DeepSeek can, you know, work out with their models. Finger crossed. Yeah, finger crossed. 所以其实的话，谈到怎么样去避免这些幻觉的话，那我们有好几个方面可以做到，第一个就是改进一下训练的数据，因为你训练的数据越好越完整的话，那AI的偏见还有不准确性就会减少，但是事实上的话，这是我们凡人没有办法做的，毕竟的话我们自己都没有AI模型是不是，所以呢，我们就要祈祷一下，像我们的那些大模型公司，像OpenAI或是DeepSeek，它们的数据越好的话，那我们就可以从中受益 对啊，就祈祷一下这些公司，赶紧加速一下这些模型的迭代，那确实来说，现在的模型更新迭代确实够快的，基本上每一到两周就有一个新模型出来，然后不同的模型公司都不断的更新它们的模型，真的是越来越好 对 Okay, what's the next one? The next one is retrieval argument generation. The abbreviation is RAG or AI agents. It's all about adding trusted outside sources to the AI's responses. So it can back things up with real verified info. It's like having the right data at the right time. Think of it like narrowing down your options to a specific level. Kind of like the examples that I mentioned. Hands are for grabbing and feet are for walking. You wouldn't use your feet to eat, right? Yeah, we won't. 所以第二个的话就是那种RAG技术，它就叫做检索增强生成，或是AI智能体，其实就是将可信赖的外部数据源，添加到AI的回答当中，然后让它能够用真实经过验证的信息来支持回答，那就好像在对的时间拥有对的数据。刚才Wing就给我们举了一个例子，就是说其实手就用来抓取东西的，脚就是用来走的，那你肯定就不会用脚用来吃东西 对，除了那些体格特别的人，那就另外说有些人骨骼精奇（粤语），那些人就另外说了，我们只是说一般人 对 Okay, what else? So number three, developing better context understanding. We mentioned a little bit before. This one is really huge, especially for users because it's about making sure AI really get what you mean when you ask for something. It's like when I work with the clients on campaigns, I'll dig deeper into what they actually want. If they say they don't like this black, they want colorful black. I will ask, why is that? How about we add some colorful dots? Let's do this, let's try that. And sometimes it turns out it's not even the visual black they don't like, it's the music. So the more specific you can put in your prompts, the better. 所以其实这个的话，就是我们困扰我们很久的一个问题，就是我们要有一个更好的上下文理解，那因为这样子才能确保AI真正理解你想要表达的那个意思

【转录15/20】【46:20-50:59】 那刚才Wing也举了一个例子，她以前在跟客户合作去做广告活动的时候，她会更加深入了解他们想要的东西，那如果客户说他不喜欢黑色的时候，那你不要真的是把那个黑色全换掉，应该要更加细致的问一下，就是说为什么，那如果我们加一些五颜六色的点怎么样，那有时候其实那些客户并不是说真的很讨厌这个黑色，他可能只是说你这个搭配的BGM那个音乐不太合适，所以如果你们越具体地了解那个反馈跟指令的话，那效果就会更好，所以就是你要把你的很多的那些要点，你的要求把它具体化，而不是应该用一个非常笼统的一个话 对的呢，就是把你想要的东西具象化，就不要说太抽象，或者过于感性，譬如说我需要一个高大上的东西，那其实本身高大上这个词，每个人的理解都不一样，那AI来说，他也没有一个统一的标准，什么叫做高大上，所以这个时候，我们就把这个具象化，把这个高大上定义好，什么是我想要的，或者给一个参考的东西给他，那这时候，AI就会更好地去理解，你想要的是什么 对的。OK. And number four is active mitigation strategies. You can tweak the AI setting like the temperature setting. Lowering the temperature gives more focused conservative responses, less chance of hallucinations. But turning it up makes the AI more creative and diverse, though it might also mix stuff up. 那下一个方法就是主动减缓策略，有时候我们可以通过调整AI的设置，比如温度的设置，降低温度的话，能够让AI的回答更加集中，更加保守，然后它产生幻觉的几率也会更低，但如果把温度调高的话，AI反而会变得更加有创意，更加多样化，虽然也有可能它可能会一直在编东西，但是起码也会好很多。我之前有用过不同的一个AI模型，有一些它当时有一个温度计在那里，其实我当时都很疑惑，我说温度计是用来干嘛的，我是用来探热吗，当然不是，对不对。所以我现在才明白，原来我可以调整这个温度，然后让它回答会是怎么样，我不太清楚现在DeepSeek有没有，但是DeepSeek有一个深度思考，可能是跟这个差不多，是吗？ 不一样，深度思考是它的AI的逻辑，它的运行逻辑不一样，就是深度思考它会先自我做一些反馈，就是AI本身它生成完一个东西，它会自己去做一些反馈，所以有个thinking process，然后最后才输出一个结果给你，它有一个back and forth的过程，但这个温度，其实我的理解会有点像，像我们拍照，调照片的所有色温，色温其实也是叫temperature，应该是数字越小是越蓝，数字越高，但是它是偏暖色系，所以其实对于可能，我猜的，我这个是纯粹是我猜的，AI这个温度就基于这个色温去定的，像我们蓝色通常给我们的感觉是更冷静，然后暖色通常给我们是更阳光，可能更有创造性，更有活力，所以它就可能会乱编东西 原来是这样 Last but not least is user awareness. It's super helpful to educate people about AI hallucinations. If users are aware of the potential issues, they are more likely to double-check things like footnotes or references. Make sure that article really exists before using it, just like the links you mentioned. At least you double-check. Yeah. 所以最后一点的话，就是关于用户意识，我们要教育用户，了解AI会产生幻觉，这一个问题，这是非常重要的，如果用户，他们意识到这些潜在问题的话，他们更有可能核对脚注或者是引用的内容，我们就可以确保那个文章是真的存在，然后再使用它。我觉得其实这个不只是AI，我现在有遇到一些情况，就是我有些学生，当我问他一个什么问题，或是问他一个，日常生活上的问题的话，他们跟我说，我去抖音那里去，可以讲的吗，他就说，我去抖音那里去找 x音

【转录16/20】【51:00-53:56】 好，那我们去某音那里去找一下答案，我当时在想，我说你怎么可以用把某音当作是百科全书，它上面的内容是非常的复杂，而且它都是视频向，它都是通过一个视频来讲出来的，然后他们很容易就把某些东西当作是百科全书，对不对，所以我就跟他们说，我说你不可以这样子，你要double check，你要在多个平台那里去去检验一下这个问题的答案，所以我觉得不只是AI，然后我觉得是用所有的东西都是一样，一定要double check Yeah, critical thinking is really important. Yeah, especially when AI is widespread. And we have to be aware of this kind of potential problems. We have to be aware of these hallucinations. Yay! Okay, so Wing, after talking so much about AI, so anything that we can use in the speaking test? Yes, actually there's a topic about that, about artificial intelligence. Describe a product or application that is based on artificial intelligence. You should say what it is, how you heard about it, how you use it, and explain why you use it. Great, can you give us an example? Of course, and I'm going to use my company's AI agent. Sure. One of the most fascinating products based on artificial intelligence is an AI-powered sales assistance that my company has developed. This product is essentially an intelligent agent designed to help with customer service, particularly in chat-based platforms like WeChat. (刚才有几个单词非常好用，尤其是在雅思的口语当中，第一个是Fascinating，它是表示迷人的，令人着迷的，所以这个Fascinating的话，就可以表示某个东西非常令人着迷的，那就可以说Something is fascinating，那当然也可以用它的名词，叫Fascination，Something is a fascination。好，然后第二个的话，是AI-Powered，它是AI，然后再一个连字符，再加一个Powered，那Powered的话，就是表示力量嘛，然后它是ed的话，就把它变成了一个形容词，所以就是由什么什么什么驱动的，所以AI-Powered，那第三个的话，就是Essentially，那本来它是Essential，本来就表示本质的，然后现在加了一个ly，把它变成一个副词，所以就变成了本质上，基本上） It can handle everything from answering customer inquiries to following up on previous interactions. And it does this in a way that feels remarkably human. My business partner first got this idea for this AI agent when he was researching how AI could streamline sales processes.

【转录17/20】【53:59-57:48】 好，那这里的话有几个单词，第一个的话，Inquiry，就表示询问调查，那刚才Wing有提到，就是说那个Customer Inquiry，就是说客户的一个询问，它的动词形式是Inquire，那它另外一个，比较熟知的话就是Ask，但是Inquire的话，会更加学术性一点，所以你在雅思当中的话，用到这个词的话，也会让你的口语给它加一个分。那下一个是Interaction，那这个我们经常会讲到这个单词，它表示互动交流，它是一个名词，另外一个比较常见的形式是它的动词，就是Interact，那通常会有一个短语叫Interact with，I interact with somebody，这样子我和某个人互动交流。那下一个还有一个AI Agent，AI Agent的话，它中间可能会有一个连字符，有时候也会没有，但是它都是表示AI智能体，就我们刚才Wing讲到的，她公司现在也是关于这个AI-Agent，专门销售和客户服务，设计的一个智能体，能够根据客户需求，提供个性化的服务，帮你打下广告，谢谢你，好，那下一个的话就是Streamline，Streamline是表示简化优化，那Streamline这个的话，它在用在学术文章当中也会比较多，那像刚才Wing有提到，就是说那个AI智能体的话，它可以帮助简化优化Streamline那个销售的流程，然后自动化许多重复性的任务，所以可以让那些销售人员，可以更加集中精力，处理更加复杂的事物 One of the key features of our AI agent is that it avoids the common issue of hallucinations in AI where the system might generate false or made up information while presenting it confidently as fact. Our agent is designed to stick to the facts. And if it doesn't know something it will simply say “I don't know”. This is a huge advantage because in customer service misinformation can lead to frustration. Ok，那在这里的话有几个单词，那第一个是关于这个hallucination，我们刚才一直提了很多次了，它表示幻觉的意思，就是AI它可能会产生这个幻觉，那它的动词呢就是hallucinate，那第二个的话是stick to，stick to这个的话我们就会经常会用到，它表示坚持遵循，你说stick to the fact，就是坚持遵循这个事实，那stick to it，就是说那我就要坚持，下一个是misinformation，information就是我们熟知的信息，但前面给它加一个mis，前缀的话表示相反的，所以就是错误的信息misinformation

【转录18/20】【57:49-59:17】 The reason we developed the AI agent is simple. It saves business time and reduces human error. Before we built this, sales teams were spending a significant amount of time responding to individual inquiries, often resulting in repetitive responses or miscommunications due to ambiguity. 好,那在这里的话有几个单词，第一个单词是repetitive，那它是从哪个单词来呢，就是从repeat重复那一个，那它现在把它变成一个形容词的形式repetitive，就表示重复的。那第二个的话就刚才我们有提过miscommunication同一个前缀，communication表示沟通，但是前面加一个mis，表示否定的话，所以就是沟通产生误解，所以沟通误解，另外一个是ambiguity，我们可能比较熟悉它的形容词形式ambiguous，就是很模糊的，那这个ambiguity，是它的名词形式表示模糊性，还有词意，岐意（普通话），对这里我刚刚是不是说词意，我听错，嗯（粤语）歧义，对，歧义，不好意思 Now the AI handles those basic tasks which allows business to focus on more complex issues or customer relationships. Additionally because the AI is designed to be consistent and objective, companies can rely on it to provide accurate information which is crucial in maintaining customer trust. 好的，那我们这里的话有几个单词也是用的很不错的，第一个是consistent，它表示一致的稳定的是一个形容词，那我们可以说，something is consistent，某个东西它是非常稳定的，非常一致的，那我们也经常会看到它的名词形式consistency。那第二个单词的话就是objective，它表示客观的，另外它的反义词呢，就是主观的叫subjective。下一个呢是crucial，那crucial这个单词呢就非常好用了，为什么呢，我们平时只会用important，但现在我们可以用一个crucial，表示至关重要的，所以这个crucial也是一个比较高级的词汇。

【转录19/20】【59:22-1:01:34】 In summary, building this AI-powered sales assistant has been an exciting and rewarding experience for me and for my company. It's efficient, reliable and most importantly it frees up time for businesses to focus on what truly matters. I believe this combination of AI and customer service is something that will continue to grow in the future. I'm really excited. Great. 好，还有两个单词，第一个是rewarding，那本来reward是表示奖励奖赏，它现在是rewarding，它反而变成一个形容词，就表示有意义的，还有值得的，那另外一个单词是reliable，它reliable是从rely，依赖依靠那个单词来的，但它现在把它变成一个形容词的形式，加了一个able，就是可，所以可依赖的，可靠的，reliable Great. Any other questions? Yes. In part 3, there are two more questions. The first one is how do you think technology makes our lives better and easier? What do you think? Well, undoubtedly, technology makes our lives better and easier by automating tasks, improving communication and providing access to information at our fingertips. It helps save time, increases efficiency and allows us to connect with people and resources globally. Cool. I agree. And the next question is what is the future of our artificial intelligence? Well, I'm curious about your answers since you have an AI company. What do you think? The future of artificial intelligence is likely to bring more advanced automation, personalized experiences and deeper interaction into various industries like healthcare, education and business. AI will continue to evolve, potentially enhancing human capabilities in solving complex global challenges.

【转录20/20】【1:01:37-1:04:27】 That's cool. So that's all for today. Thank you for your listening. 谢谢大家收听，下面是我们的翻牌时间，对，真的要非常感谢大家在我们消失的这段期间不离不弃，还时不时来找我们追更。哎，真的是实在太不好意思。那我挑了一个我们的朋友，在我们scam那一期给留言了，她本人过来留言了，就是May_MH，她说”我来了，听到自己的故事出现，好搞笑的感觉，哈哈哈哈，那个高富帅真的收网太早了，也不发几个包，光画饼，怎么会相信嘛，正所谓舍不得孩子套不着狼，而且好像是个新手，漏洞实在太多。“对啊，我就说本来我还可以，叨一下光，然后可能可以蹭到一个包回来呢，对啊，假的都好。Ok，那我翻一个朋友的牌子，他叫圆圆不圆_SFvb，她也是在那个scam那期说的“哇，终于更新了，把以前的又听了几遍，终于等到了。”不好意思，你刚发完这句话之后，你可能又等了几个月，才能听到我们新的这一期，很抱歉，我们在努力中，保持持续更新，但过去那段时间实在是太忙了，我们想了很多办法，包括找后期都没有找到人，所以真的没有办法，我们接下来会继续努力的。谢谢大家，那如果你有这个什么剪辑技能的话，记得来联系我们哦。对的，ok，好，那非常感谢大家的关注，然后也欢迎大家来订阅我们四大平台，分别在小宇宙，喜马拉雅，苹果播客，还有QQ音乐，你漏了一个，我们有个最新的，我们在Spotify也可以找得到，哦，Spotify。对，对的。然后如果想要更私密的联系的话，可以发邮件给我们，我们的邮箱是[email protected]，也欢迎大家来关注一下我们的小红书和微博，另外一个我们的逐字稿会放在小宇宙评论区当中，请大家查看，那祝大家天天快乐，Happy everyday. Have a nice day. Stay tuned. Bye

终于回来了🥹🥹🥹🥹

因为忙期末周忙着备考专四好久都没时间听姐姐们的播客，现在结束了期末周（谢天谢地我还活着😂）再来听发现姐姐们又更新了嘿嘿开心ദ്ദി˶˃ ᵕ ˂ )✧，真的很喜欢你们的节目！很有意思，有时候边走路边听都会跟着笑出声，还很喜欢你们讲粤语，说一些我没有接触过的东西嘿嘿。这期节目的主题我也很有感触，因为我是文科类大学生，虽然很喜欢自己的专业，但不可避免会有畏难情绪，以及身边的人都在用ai工具，所以我也经常会用AI去一键生成作业，导致我独立思考能力退化非常严重，而且长时间的懒惰让我的大脑“生锈”了，注意力也很难集中，正式考试的时候也没有以前那么得心应手了。后面我们一个老师说到现在的大学生如何被AI影响，以及我们面临的困境的问题，很多人使用这些工具生成自己的论文，现在还需要查AI率，数值很高的学生会去用AI降AI率，最后得出的是一个像幼儿园小朋友写的东西，感觉现在摆在我们大学生面前的一个问题是AI写的东西比我们写的要好，那我们还有什么值得被选择的呢。最有意思的是老师跟我们看了一句话：你们写的东西又好又有原创性，但是好的部分没有原创性，原创的不好😂很真实，然后也让我深刻反思了自己，主要不希望毕业论文写不下去哈哈哈😂我现在马上大三了，也许现在还不算太晚，已经慢慢改掉依赖AI的习惯啦！☺️☺️☺️

【好久不见】【转录1/20】【0:00-2:40】 Hi, everyone. It's Gossip English time. 《尬聊英语》时间又到啦！This is Wing. This is Yao. Let's learn English through gossip. How are you, Yao? It's been a while. Hey, guys. Long time no see. We've disappeared for a while because it's super, super crazy busy recently. How about you? Yeah, it's been quite crazy lately. I started a new company with a buddy I've known since like elementary school. We went through middle and high school together too. So yeah, we go way back and ever since we kick things off, it's just been go, go, go, go, go. So I've been spinning like wild, way too busy. How about you? Yeah, me too. Just like you. Every day, I just kick off the day with teaching and then end up with teaching because recently I had a lot of senior 3 students. That's why they are preparing for the gaokao and that's why I've been working non-stop. Yeah, so that's why we disappeared for a while. But now we are back, hopefully. Yeah, so miss you guys so much. Yeah, totally. And we are so sorry that we've been missing for a while. Well, so Wing, what's the most popular news now? Of course, AI. What else? Yeah, always the topic, right? Yeah. How often do you use AI? Every day. You know, because I need AI to help me teach and sometimes I will ask them like how I can explain this knowledge better so that my students can understand it well and sometimes I use AI to help me write the feedbacks so that the students and the parents can know how they are doing. Yeah, so well, how often do you use AI? Well, now every day. But man, before I was so freaked out by AI at first. Like I really thought it was going to replace me especially with what I do, you know, filmmaking. Yeah. AI would just start cranking out movies without people. Have you seen those text to video clips like generated by AI? Yeah, of course. They are insane, right? Exactly, yes. And you just type a sentence and boom! It spits out this whole scene like it's nothing.